it comes in pints?

Years ago, there was an older JW who used to come around about every two weeks to talk theology. Every time, he had a diffferent young person with him. I wondered for a while why he kept it up, as he didn't seem to hold out much more hope for converting me. I eventually figured out he was using me as a training exercise for the young 'uns.

"THE END OF FALSE RELIGION IS NEAR!"

Yeah, I wish. But I would guess that I think there's one more false religion out there than the Witnesses do.

At least with the door to door folks, you can start a discussion of previous bad prophecies. All you can do with this is toss the mail out, and maybe complain to the marriage mail company distributing it.

Bill,
The envelope was hand-written and addressed to "current resident." There was an adress for somewhere in the neighboring town, but no company or church name. I'm tempted to pay a visit to the place and tell them if they ever send me anything again, I'll be glad to help facilitate their meeting with God.

Joel,
Something really interesting came up in one of my Constitutional law classes. One of the guys in my class had lived in a neighborhood near a JW temple or church or whatever they call their meeting places. He and his neighbors were just inundated by these people, sometimes more than once a day. They were so fed up, they tried to get a restraining order against them, but they couldn't, since JW requires them to carry out missionary work, a restraining order would be considered a violation of their Constitutional rights. So in retaliation, the neighbors got together and would occassionally stop by the house of the congregation's leader and say things like "Hi, I was wondering if you would like to spend thirty minutes or so talking about the Pope with me?" As it turns out, HE could get a restraining order against THEM, because they weren't touting a religion that required in its tennets to conduct missionary work.

I'm all for the idea of freedom of religion, but it makes me sick the way the concept is abused by people.

That was a brilliant idea, going to his house. Damn judge.

On you tube, there's a video of an Australian atheist who got so tired of Mormon missionaries knocking on his door on Saturday morning that he flew to Salt Lake City and went door to door preaching the values of atheism.

It must be nice to have that kind of spare change laying around.

I actually agree with the judge here. I think anything else would have been an abuse of his interpretation of the Constitution. I lay fault with the church leader, who had the hypocritical nerve to seek a restraining order when he finally got a dose of his own medicine. You don't like people coming over to your house and shoving their religion in your face? Guess what? The rest of us don't either.

We should ask Dave. From my point of view, once the neighbors had made their displeasure clear, it's trespassing. If my right to swing my fist ends at your nose, it would seem to me that the right to preach and witness should end at my front lawn.

I wonder if these are popular items in neighborhoods with JW meeting halls.

Those JW folks used to try to come to my house. I say "try" because we have the perfect missionary repellent: a long, steep, corrugated dirveway and two flights of stairs at the top. I'm sure their spirits were willing, but their glutes were weak.
Mi casa es su aerobic workout.

Nancy, top off the stairs with a pentagram or Star of David and you're really onto something.

Years ago, I had a lovely young chemist working for me who was pretty quiet, meaning especially that she didn't normally indulge in the usual risque/perverted type of conversation the rest of us are prone to. This meant that when she did say something like that, the amusement value was greatly multiplied.

One day my crew was having lunch together and a discussion came up about which group was more bothersome, JW or Mormons. The gal spoke right up and said, "Well, I like the Mormons... they ride bicycles and [holds out hands palms up as if to grab something] get these really cute asses."

Bill,
I'm not sure how the judge viewed the issue of trespassing (it would be interested to read his ruling, alas, I don't even know what city this happened in. If the guy said, I don't remember), but I can understand why he might view punching someone in the face a little different than knocking on their door to preach about Jesus. I'm sure it would be a different story if, say, you asked them to leave and they refused or something along those lines. But I can see how the restraining order could cross the line and open up a pretty vague can of worms. It is not a matter of JWs wanting to "witness." Their religion requires it.

They're a pain in the ass, but that's not against the law.

I don't get them at my home because I live in an apartment building with a security door and they can't get inside unless they wait in the lobby for someone to come in or out. But there's an unusually high number of them that roam the stretch of boulevard between my apartment and my aunt's house. I see them out there - usually between four and six of them in one trip - clutching their Bibles to their chest in their neat and tidy clothes with those frighteningly beatific grins on their faces. They always say hello. Even if you keep your head down when you pass them, don't make eye contact or even acknowledge their presence. They'll still manage to shout an overly-friendly and eager "HELLO!" It's weird.

There are also a couple of guys that roam my neighborhood. They come in some big church van and stop people on the streets. At least they don't immediately launch into their attempted conversions. They always ask if you "have a minute" and leave you alone after you say no.

but I can understand why he might view punching someone in the face a little different than knocking on their door to preach about Jesus

I know, I was just making an argument from principle. A "your rights end where mine begin" thing.

I figured you were just giving a rough example, Bill.

Ken,
I had some friends in college who would practically stage elaborate, 3-act plays when they were visited by the Jesus crew. They'd have people making goat noises in some other part of the house and had this scripted response asking the visitors if they could come back after they finished making their sacrifice to the glory of Satan or what not. It was very funny.

I've tried telling them I'm Jewish before and that doesn't seem to deter them much.

When the JW's would come to my Mom's house, she would say "just a sec" and go to the hall closet and brandish Old Glory and say "if you say the Pledge of Allegience, I will listen to your story". That's like kryptonite to Superman, they can't because god comes before country in their theology. That's way I have the flag right near the front door of my house.

That's way I have the flag right near the front door of my house.

That explains the lack of JW visits to my place since I installed the flag holder.....and fly Old Glory daily.

Thank God for patriotism! ;-P

What to put on my door, a flag or a pentagram. Decisions, decisions.
I truly don't get these people. If you want converts then shouldn't you make your religion attractive to people? Instead about the only thing most people know about JW's is that they're the annoying idiots who pester the bejehovah out of them. Maybe they should try playing hard to get. Or pick up litter or something.

Nancy,

If they wanted more members, having more babies is a better long term plan for success than witnessing to strangers. Gaining converts is really hard work, raising your kids to believe what you believe is much easier.

I don't really think their religion requiring them to witness constitutionally obligates the neighbors to participate by being the witnessee. It's not the neighbors' religion. On the other hand ... install a peephole so you can see who it is, and don't go to the door.

But we have JWs come by every now and then and they must be a different variety than what everybody else gets. They're very nice and smiley, offer me a copy of "The Watchtower" (which I read cover to cover and then throw away), and then leave. I don't really find it offensive.

Bill - I hope he was careful in picking his neighbourhood. A lot of areas of SLC aren't very Mormon at all, though I admit I'd have been pretty amused if someone had knocked on my door to start flogging the virtues of atheism; it would make a nice change. (I'm Catholic, so it's not like I have a dog in either fight).

I have done studies on religions, and cults. I love it when they come to my door. Most of them are young adults who don't have alot of experance in dealing with people who have done the reaseach into what they are selling. They learn not to come here because I can out talk and out question them. If and when the quote Bible verses to get their point across I have several that I can say "Well this says this could that be refering to what you are talking about? Or if that is here in the Bible and this was written later could not the later book be what they are talking about?" The poor kids get such a confused look on their faces.

Nulaane,
The funny thing about questioning them like you do, as I'm sure you know if you've done studies, is that is actually a basic and pretty simple deprogramming technique. If it happens to them enough times, if enough people throw tough questions that they can't answer, they're likely to snap out of it.

Emily, I know it is a very easy thing to do. However they don't seem to come back after the first run.

The "australian atheist" referred to earlier in the discussion, is one of my national hero's. His name is John Safran. He is a comedian and entertainer. A very sharp guy, with a strong australain urge to take the piss. You can read more about his exploits (nothing is sacred) at www.johnsafran.com . He has a whole series called "John Safran vs God". check it out.