it comes in pints?

God, what a tampon sucker Olbermann is.

I find the South Korean response particularly irritating because many South Koreans are openly racist about westerners, especially Americans.

And Olbermann? I've seen fresh cow turds with a higher IQ and more integrity.

Ken's turning into Val Prieto. I blame Bush.

Yes, the whole racism call by the South Koreans is a bit much it has to be said. But then again how do you react when one of your countrymen commits a gross act of terrorism?

Hold on guys, arent you all being a little tad stupid here. How can you blame the actions of one individual and tarnish the entire race. If that mentality was adopted, then Germans would still be hated for all the atrocities they committed against Jews and as we know......we all lurrrrve the Germans now.

I question the fact that if any occurence out of the norm happens, why do americans adopt the attitude that 'the world is against them'?

I watched a documentary of mexican immigrants crossing the border to work for a living (they were doing all the demenial jobs white americans were refusing to do) and a young teenager said 'I dont mind the blacks because they do not enter illegally and take up all the jobs meant for real americans' and I couldnt beleive his ignorance.

Only 60 years ago, white americans were persucuting blacks, now they're after the mexicans. Anybody who knows a little history knows you have been actively persucting muslims since you used the afgans to overpower russia. (you learnt from Vietnam that why kill your own soldiers when you get some other muppet to do it and this method can actually date right back to the crusader times but one step at a time folks).

America is made up from Irish, Jews, Asains, Spaniards, Red Indians, Italians, Arabs and a host more so who are real americans??? You're country is made up of the very people you love to hate.

I find it unreal that you have the nerve to condemn another race's behaviour yet you do not look at your own mass negligence and see what trouble you have caused around the world and for what.......power, to be the best??......you americans are a bunch of fucking retards cos if you were trying to be the best you'd have done a much better job of it instead of half the world hating your over opinionated, bullying guts. Even your biggest marketing tool (Hollywood) have made films that go against the very government that you so wholly support to 'kick some charlie/sand nigger's ass', you're race is joke! You are so far up your own asses that you cant really see what true facts are because you have bought into the bullshit American dream, the bullshit patriosim that is fed to you by the shovel load. Anybody or country who commits an atrocity gives us Americans the right to commit an even bigger attrocity on them - wrong or right because we are the defenders of the truth - wrong or right, we know better - wrong or right, you cant fuck with me but I can fuck with you - wrong or right.

So my Americans friends, how are you feeling reading this??? Are you annoyed at what Ive accused you of?? Are you annoyed that Ive tarnished your governments actions and blamed solely you for all the wrong doing in this world..........Thats exactly what other individual races feel when you write that just because of a fanatic group or a bunch of crazy individuals, you whole heartedly go after the entire race and start openly discriminating them which in effect advocates 'let's get these fuckers, its open market on them'.

There is an old Pakistani proverb that reads 'no five fingers are the same'. The same applies to individuals. Dont be so ignorant and narrow minded. Only when you change yourself will others change around you.

If you truly want to be the best, if you truly yield some power, then use it in the right way. If you were to change your own views, policies and thoughts then the grass root level of other countries wouldnt adapt and change their views and the world would be better and peaceful place to live in.

Maybe I shouldn't feed the troll, but...

Jed evidently didn't read this post, which is criticizing the barking moonbat South Korean diplomats for presuming a level of racism that doesn't exist in America. If we hated the South Koreans so much, our cemeteries would have 54,246 fewer plots.

Hey Jed, i know you europeans have such a superior culture and edjumakashun system and all, but i would have thought that they might teach you guys to learn how to read. It is the SK government that is afraid they will be targeted; no one is running around in Virginia saying 'kill all the koreans'.

Much like after September 11th when everyone assumed that us ignorant 'Merkuns would attack any Muslim we saw walking down the street, which sadly for you superior types did not happen at all; but what in fact did happen was that you sophisticated suave Euroappeasers went out and stoned synagogues and busses carrying jewish kids in France.

So, while it's not quite Friday I do hope the hosts of this site will not be too upset with me when I start the FFOT a tad early and tell you to Fuck Off.

With knobby baguettes.

I agree with Ken, totally.

But I have to say that I was disturbed by some of the Muslim Derangement Syndrome comments that I saw at some of the right-wing news blogs that I peruse, before the facts came out. That crap doesn't accomplish anything good, and it's the kind of thing that has prevented me from ever wanting to register at them.

Bottom line, this was one evil and messed-up person. A letter to the editor of my local paper asks what this says about humanity ... it says humanity is the same as it ever was. A certain extremely small percentage of us is cracked. Can't fix that.

Oh, fricken A.

Is it time for the FFOT yet?

Good grief, this is shaping up to be one of those weeks where I really wished I had taken that research position taking rectal measurements of caribou body temperatures in Alaska. (I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'd've still been dealing with assholes, but at least that kind can't talk to me.)

Jed, where did I criticize another race's behavior? I criticized some dipshit who automatically assumed that all Americans will now start targetting South Koreans. Just like we did when Americans pelted mosques with flowers after 9/11.

Before you go lecturing us on our attitudes toward blacks and Muslims and Mexicans, let's talk about the unassimilated Muslim ghettos in Britain and France. And the Eastern European wetbacks in Germany. It didn't take long to see those attitudes come out when I was there.

As for persecuting Muslims, I think Britain and France have done a FAR greater job of doing that over the years than America. Why, it was just 60 years ago that, well no, it was barely 45 years ago, that France was slaughtering Muslims in Algeria and elsewhere in north Africa. 60 years ago they were trying to exercise their little balls to take back Indochina, and killing lots of east Asians in the process.

And I heartily agree with Laura...It's one effed-up person who does this kind of thing. No reflection on any race or ethnicity and most of us are smart enough to realize that.

I suppose that humanity's the same as it ever was, it just seems like the really really badly screwed up people get more press these days. And that just makes me sad.

Laura - I'm not surprised at that, though I didn't see it. It's a little too common to assume it will be a Muslim.

My kneejerk reaction, before I heard more, was that it was some whitebread suburban kid. School shootings like this have been most commonly suburban white kids (think Columbine, but that's not the only one).

Ricki - *snort*

Andrew - "how do you react when one of your countrymen commits a gross act of terrorism?" I don't assume that people will blame an entire country or ethnic group for the actions of one.

And it's a little off topic but for those oh-so-sophisticated EUnuchs blaming the "gun culture" - Dunblane.

Crap. Jed's comment was so condescendingly ignorant and stupid that it's taking every ounce of will power that I have to not just delete the thing. The only reason I haven't is because I don't want Bingley and Ken's comments to lose their context.

Jed - here's a little tip, take it or leave it. If you're going to start lecturing other people about their arrogance, ignorance, and prejudices, it really, really helps your point come across more valid if you're not blatantly exhibiting all three yourself.

"But then again how do you react when one of your countrymen commits a gross act of terrorism?"

I know this doesn't apply to the South Koreans, Andrew, but I will point out Timothy McVey and the Oklahoma City bombing, for which he was executed.

I will also point out that this is not about South Korea, even if one of their citizens committed the crime. It's about the dead and wounded, and their families. So the reaction of the South Korean government is very grating to me. It's self-centered, not to mention racist on their part.

Jed, racism is at least as common in South Korea as it is in America. Europe, IMHO, is even more racist than America (and I have lived there, BTW). So your "Amerikkka is racist" rant rings very hollow to me.

Not that I expect you to listen, of course, given your knee jerk reaction and rambling rant.

And Ken, not just Dunblane. When Sheila went to visit our friend Carrie in West Belfast, the directions she gave to her house went something like this: "you come up on this street and there'll be a mural of a guy holding a gun and you turn left. Then you come up on this other street and there's a mural of a chick holding a gun and you turn right." Say whatever you like about our supposed Old West ways and love of guns (jeebus, for all the hours I have to endure being scolded for America's "gun culture," you'd think I'd have had the opportunity to touch or fire a real one once in my life), at least you won't find a fucking neighborhood like that in America. And if Jed wants to lecture us about treating other races badly, I guess the Irish is a pretty good place for him to start taking a long look in the mirror.

Jed's long gone, I fear - dropped his turd and went off to strut to his pals about telling off some Americans.

I'd heard about the South Korean diplomats coming around last night, but not the context. I'd assumed that it was a "saving face" sort of thing (I know, how profilist of me), where they felt badly and wanted to contribute something constructive - not this "don't take it out on the rest of us" crap.

Nobody here takes it out on the rest of anyone. We regard class hatred as a despicable thing. Anyone who reads this post and concludes the opposite is malfunctioning in his brain.

Go boil your head, Jed.

As for the paranoid reaction of the SK officials: nowhere have I seen anyone say "well, he was Korean, that explains it." And as far as I can tell from all the stories about the shooter, he was as American in attitude as Timothy McVeigh.

Firstly many many apologies to those whom took offence at my words. I was merely attempting to use provocation to prove a point.

Secondly, I suppose in the spur of the moment, I wrote some things because I felt yet again, another country had to resort to pleading with the Americans to not have any repercussions on their fellow country men (and also because I was slightly rushing due to being at work as I am now!!)………..so, if Amercia was so ‘undiscriminating’ (and note I DO NOT use the term racist because I do believe there is a massive difference between racisim and ignorance, if you do not realise you are offending someone then you cannot be racist, it is only once you know that you’re comments are going to provoke someone that they become racist).

Anyway, if America was so undiscriminating and the world had such a positive image of the Americans, then why would a SENIOR OFFICAL of a country feel the need to plead with the Americans not to have any comebacks??? Surely, one can suffice to say that if another ethnic person had faith in the Amercian public as to not attack their ‘kind’ then that comment would never have been said…… its not the first time something like this has been said either is it??. It simply is because the perception of America namely by Europeans, Middle-Easterns and Asians all have a negative perception on America. That’s a fact!

I am by no means advocating that ALL AMERICANS are bad because if you looked past the provocative comments I wrote, you would have seen that I wrote ‘not all people are the same’ that goes for Koreans, Chinese, Americans, Uzbekisatni’s, ANYONE but sadly you took my words at face value as opposed to understand the meaning of my posted message.

For the consideration of the audience, it meant……..I understand not all Amercians share the same view with their selected government but their decisions represent you and if you’re government is putting you in a negative light whereby a senior official of another country feels he has to defend his people from the backlash of the Americans, it sends out a serious message to me and how Amercians are accepting their country’s identity by the rest of the world.

I have no personal hatred against Amercia, I am not saying Britain or Pakistan (I’m a British Pakistani) or any other country for that fact is one above the other but what does get to me………is that our governments make fatal decisions and we as the general public at the grass root level have to live with the consequences. And SOME OF US (like laura mentioned) cannot comprehend that just because a particular type of person commits an horrific act does not mean we all share the same view.

In reference to some of the other comments made by Mr Bingley, The Real Jeffs etc Understand I was not saying America is racist, I was NOT saying we or any other race is better than the Amercians because as HUMAN BEINGS we are all equal, however what makes us different is our actions and intentions that count for something. My action in provoking Americans with my earlier comment does not mean my intention was bad…………can the American Government say the same?? I merely wanted to debate that once again another country feels that the Americans are going to act in a gross and unfair manner……..how many times is that…..If the Amercian/British government were so concerned about inhumane acts, why are they not intervening in Africa were masses and masses of gross injustices are being committed every single day (just remember Blood Diamond with Leo DiCaprio??)

I whole heartedly agree with Ken S that other countries have done wrong but in this day and age America is the world super power, it holds more clout than any other country (China is a silent force but them boys keep themselves to themselves and do not get into other’s affairs like America does) so as the ‘Daddy’ of the modern age, if you start to change your policies, then the rest of the world will follow suit and if the Amercian Public start to recognise and accept that their government has and is doing wrong and the public are in a position to do something about it, voice it out and then tell them.

Don’t be blaming some Korean ‘dipshit’ who says something against the Amercian public because of the American Governments past actions. It is your governments fault that you hold that ‘kick the fuckers ass’ perception by the rest of the world.

Sincere apologies for offence caused to anybody by my earlier rant. I genuinely thought you would have understood where I was coming from but I misjudged the capability of the audience.

Anyway, if America was so undiscriminating and the world had such a positive image of the Americans, then why would a SENIOR OFFICAL of a country feel the need to plead with the Americans not to have any comebacks???

Because the South Korean officials involved are self-centered, or racist themselves? Why elses assume that Americans are so angry that they'll start a pogrom against South Koreans?

There were no calls for mass revenge. None. That leap by the ROK officials was purely their own.

Don’t be blaming some Korean ‘dipshit’ who says something against the Amercian public because of the American Governments past actions. It is your governments fault that you hold that ‘kick the fuckers ass’ perception by the rest of the world.

Blaming him? I'm disagreeing with him, others like him. He's an idiot. Or a dipshit, take your pick. The comments are entirely inappropriate. The victims (y'know, the people who were murdered?) are the point. Not the South Koreans. No South Koreans were murdered. One committed suicide. Consider that.

BTW, nice way to write an anti-American screen into your semi-apology. "I like Americans, but hate the American Government" is a convenient way of dissing Americans, since the "American Government" is made up, y'know, Americans. And especially since the US Government had nothing to do with this. That includes gun control, IMHO.

I especially love your apology caveated with the "I misjudged the capability of the audience". You misjudged the message, Jed. You misjudged the culture. You misjudged the audience. Hell, you misjudged your ouw capabilities.

This. Is. Not. About. Race.

This. Is. Not. About. South. Korea.

This. Is. Not. About. The. American. Government.

It's. About. The. Murdered. People.

It's. About. An. Evil. And. Sick. Person.

I hope this is clear enough for you.

"but I misjudged the capability of the audience"

And you're still being a condescending prick, Jed. When you do not express your thoughts coherently and properly in a manner that makes them clear to other people, your audience are not the ones that are incapable; YOU ARE.

Hi Jed. Thanks for coming back and I appreciate your clarifications to your earlier post; not many folks would do that in this era of hit-and-run posting and you deserve credit for that. Like yourself I am at work, so I want to just respond to a few of the highlights of your post.

Anyway, if America was so undiscriminating and the world had such a positive image of the Americans, then why would a SENIOR OFFICAL of a country feel the need to plead with the Americans not to have any comebacks???

I quite frankly don't care about the world's view of us is. Oh, I know what the world elite think of us, and the suave sophisticated european media never misses an opportunity to sneer. But i also know that those ignorant masses (who need to be protected from our bullying cultural imperialism, naturally) who all too often can only cast a vote with their feet sure try to come here in pretty large numbers; that tells me something. With regard to your 'senior official', do you really think what he said was intended for those ignorant country racist yokels in virginia or rather for his own domestic media and constituents' consumption? again, immediately post 9/11 where did mob vigilante violence occur: on the streets of new york or on the streets of paris?

Surely, one can suffice to say that if another ethnic person had faith in the Amercian public as to not attack their ‘kind’ then that comment would never have been said…… its not the first time something like this has been said either is it??. It simply is because the perception of America namely by Europeans, Middle-Easterns and Asians all have a negative perception on America. That’s a fact!

here's the real 'fact': they say these things because they know in fact that they will not be attacked, and a whole grief industry has evolved by the various minorities to keep churning out these stories and fears so that these so-called 'leaders' maintain their funding and relevance. These ethnic leaders do also have great faith in another aspect of america: our sense of guilt that anything anywhere bad that has ever happened is somehow our fault, and they play upon this unceasingly with the help of the media to both maintain their funding and to enervate our foreign policy to their own agenda. I don't disagree that lots of the folks you mention have a 'negative perception' of america, but how negative can it be when none of them hesitate for a minute to hop on a plane here?

is that our governments make fatal decisions and we as the general public at the grass root level have to live with the consequences.

i agree with you 100% here. and unfortunately all too often the pattern is that when a foreign government makes a 'bad' or unpopular decision it's very easy to blame those damn americans and deflect domestic criticism of their own actions. oh! america's so big and nasty! what could we do! blech.

imagine a world where germany or china or russia or iran was the lone super power, and enjoy your bitching about america because you can.

Well said, Bingley. And thanks for noting Jed's coming back and clarifying. I appreciate that, too. I just wish he didn't end it all like he was patting a six-year-old on the head.

"Because the South Korean officials involved are self-centered, or racist themselves? Why elses assume that Americans are so angry that they'll start a pogrom against South Koreans?"

Say these words and reflect upon America’s previous actions on other countries. You’ll realize that America’s intentions was not entirely for others benefit, it was to fuel the worlds belief of being a super power and proving it hence the comments.

"Blaming him? I'm disagreeing with him, others like him. He's an idiot. Or a dipshit, take your pick. The comments are entirely inappropriate. The victims (y'know, the people who were murdered?) are the point. Not the South Koreans. No South Koreans were murdered. One committed suicide. Consider that."

Before you start having a go at me, read the initial three comments, then tell me about the murdered families issue. I responded to those three initial comments.

"BTW, nice way to write an anti-American screen into your semi-apology. "I like Americans, but hate the American Government" is a convenient way of dissing Americans, since the "American Government" is made up, y'know, Americans. And especially since the US Government had nothing to do with this. That includes gun control, IMHO."

Thanks but honestly, I don’t hate the American Government, I hate all unfair governments and puppet leaders. I hate their scheming ways, their manipulating methods, the false information/acts they put forward to the general public in order to achieve something otherwise that would have been impossible. Some of my best friends at University were Amercian namely from Michigan, Boston and Alabama.

"I especially love your apology caveated with the "I misjudged the capability of the audience". You misjudged the message, Jed. You misjudged the culture. You misjudged the audience. Hell, you misjudged your ouw capabilities.
This. Is. Not. About. Race.
This. Is. Not. About. South. Korea.
This. Is. Not. About. The. American. Government.
It's. About. The. Murdered. People.
It's. About. An. Evil. And. Sick. Person.
I hope this is clear enough for you."

I KNOW ITS ABOUT THE MURDERED FAMILIES AND IF YOU THINK AFTER ALL THAT IVE WROTE IM STILL HARPING ON ABOUT ‘I HATE AMERCIA’ THEN I TRULY GIVE UP ON YOU YANKS. DO NOT BE SO NAÏVE AND NARROW MINDED INTO THINKING THIS IS ABOUT ONE EVIL AND SICK PERSON……..IF AMERICA WASN’T SO GUNG-HO IN ITS ENGAGEMENT OF OTHER COUNTRIES, THEN MAYBE THOSE POOR CHILDERN OF THOSE GRIEVING FAMILIES WOULD NEVER HAVE SEEN THEIR KIDS DIE.
YOU DO NOT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND THAT IF YOU REALLY WANT TO THINK ABOUT AND HONOUR THE FAMILIES ……………….. ITS ABOUT WHAT WE CAN LEARN FROM THIS TRADEGY AND WHAT I HAVE BEEN ADVOCATING FROM THE OUTSET…………………………..ITS UNFORTUNATE WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN AMERICA BUT IN ORDER FOR THE WORLD TO REALISE THE FULL IMPACT OF THIS TRADEGY, AMERICA HAS TO CHANGE IT’S IN-HOUSE GUN POLICIES, ITS GLAMOURISATION OF VIOLENCE, THE ENGAGEMENT OF OTHER COUNTRIES. EVERYTHING ELSE IS JUST TRIVIA.

Now, I certainly hope that is clear enough for you………jeeeeeeesus, you lot are hard work!!

And Emily, please refer to the other profanties used so kindly by others to myself then take a look at my oh so 'condescending remark'. These type of topics arise quite often both in my professional and social circles and I have no problems in getting my point across.......and I love the way out of 11 paragraphs in a debate, the only thing you could reply to was my 'condescending reply'.

Tells me all about the audience that I need to know sweetheart, Have you really got anything useful to say or are you purposefully trying to humor me with your lack of intelligence......lol.

Jed,
Did it ever occur to you that the reason I didn't respond to anything else you wrote is because 1) others did it better already or 2) I thought it was rubbish that didn't merit a reply? Again, keep questioning the intellegence of someone that outside of this very generic thread you know absolutely nothing about while you are lecturing everyone else about their faults.

And I'll thank you not to call me "sweetheart." At least you completely proved my accusations of condescension without a doubt.

And stop calling me Shirley.

"Condescending" is exactly right, Emily. My caffeine starved brain cells couldn't find that word this morning, else my response would have been a lot more succint.

Bingley,
I'd never call you Shirley. Especially since I know how much you prefer being called Cindy.

Im finishing work now, so Ill have to reply tommorow and I was only messing with last 'condescending' remark.

I genuinely hope people realise I am only getting my views across in order to understand 'the other sides' point of view.

I have my understanding and wish to know if I have a fair opinion or not and by conversing with you (namely Mr Bingley), I can sort of understand why now my views could come across as a little distorted.

Speak to you tomorrow.

That's Naughty Cindy. How could you forget so quickly?

Jed,
You are always welcome to come back here and disagree with us, as long as you kindly remember that most of us are university-educated, professional adults with more than three peas for a brain. There's a difference between debate and talking down to people like they're idiots. If you would like to understand "the other side," then it helps a lot if you try and look at it with a little more clarity than the plot of an Oliver Stone movie.

Bingley,
It was the Bushmills. I almost wrote "Frisky Cindy," because I remembered there was an adjective of some kind, but didn't want to risk getting it wrong. My apologies. I won't make the mistake again.

Well, "Saucy" I could have accepted.

...but sadly you took my words at face value as opposed to understand the meaning of my posted message.

I majored in journalism at college so I can tell you, Jed, that when the face value of your words are in conflict with your intended meaning, the problem is what you wrote, not what we read. Or to quote the great Thomas More, "It will mean what the words say."

If you say "I hate puppies," and every dog lover in earshot gets mad, it's no use to protest, "No, that's just face value of my words, I meant that I really just prefer kittens." That's not what you said. If that's all you say, then it's all we have to go on, not being Jedi. We can't just presume that you're kidding unless we know you first - and this is the first visit you've made here.

As to substance, I'm glad first off to see that you came back to explain. It helps overcome a bad first impression. Second, I'm glad to see that you're backing off the assertion of racism by America towards South Korea, the moreso because it doesn't exist. As Ken pointed out, we lost over 50,000 soldiers defending their country from Communist tyranny.

That brings me to point three - your statement that China keeps to itself and doesn't meddle in the world. China, in fact, is not nearly as silent as you'd like to believe. Take Korea again - the North was supplied and supported by China with weapons and personnel. Same thing in Vietnam. China enslaved Tibet, quashed the Tianemen Square democracy movement, cracks down on dissent, and through its economy casts a large shadow on world events. Part of that is condoning economic warfare in the form of large-scale piracy of Western media and software. (Former Soviet Russia does a good deal of this as well, and Communist satellite North Korea conducts large-scale counterfieting of American currency.)

You also mentioned the suffering of Africa, and supposed American inaction - even though our citizens send food, billions of dollars, the Peace Corps, etc. In fact, the main hallmark of American foreign policy is not naked self-interest, but the desire to help somehow, anyhow, even if it HURTS our stature around the world - because people see that even American resources are limited and thus blame our country for not making everything better forever. We respond to the devastation of a tsunami halfway around the world, and people say we weren't there soon enough; we intervene to save lives in a civil war and people blame us for innocent people who die after we arrive; we're accused of loving war even though the peace movement in America is the loudest, best-funded, and most public in human history.

Most importantly, our laws permit all these criticisms and protect the people who make them. One huge reason China seems like such a model of international restraint is that they silence anyone who tries to say otherwise. If you went onto a Chinese blog to protest their treatment of Falun Gong, your comment would vanish unread; and if you were Chinese, so would you. The only place for a dissident to be heard is in the West - from Thomas Paine through Thoreau, to Solzhenitsyn and Cuban expatriots.

I'd guess that our love of the underdog is the root of all of it - our need to apologize being an overdog; our insistence on equal time to everyone, even enemies of our people and government; our support of people who oppose tyranny abroad; our love even of blogging, which gives a voice to anyone who wants it. Our media today are even giving equal time to the diseased rantings of the sociopath who shot up Virginia Tech this week. That's what we do, good or bad - and we leave it up to the individual to decide how to react. And if we disapprove, we usually do it with words, not force.

Applause, Nightfly. Well said!

I see Jed took my advice and boiled his head.

Jed:

"IF AMERICA WASN’T SO GUNG-HO IN ITS ENGAGEMENT OF OTHER COUNTRIES, THEN MAYBE THOSE POOR CHILDERN OF THOSE GRIEVING FAMILIES WOULD NEVER HAVE SEEN THEIR KIDS DIE."

Perhaps you would expand on this a bit. Actually, perhaps you would edit it first.

Laura,
Hahahaha! I missed that, but mostly because my eyes kind of glazed over for most of Jed's comments that are little more than recycled, empty rhetoric (but remember, I'M the one who is unintelligent between the two of us). Brilliant. Thanks for pointing it out.

Anyway, if America was so undiscriminating and the world had such a positive image of the Americans, then why would a SENIOR OFFICAL of a country feel the need to plead with the Americans not to have any comebacks???

Because a lot of this world's senior officials are barking moonbats.

Right folks, I appreciated the comments (whether they were related to grammatical errors or content issue! No matter) and again apologies for the delayed response, I was awfully busy at work and Saturday is ‘my’ day.

I genuinely do believe that we have sort of missed the point (whether that is due to my inability of explaining my issue to you or alternatively whether you can have difficulty in comprehending what Im saying).

Lets start from the beginning.

I disliked the way how the initial three comments of this thread said ‘it was racist of South Korea to have made comments against americans’. I felt it was an ignorant and hypocritical opinion.
In a nutshell, I went onto say (in my provocative style) that America is made up from numerous nationalities and how can you condemn another races comments/perception when your ancestors were at one time ‘on the other side’ too.
You should be more accommodating, understanding and reflective of ones actions as to why someone would say comments (that speaks volumes about Americans) instead of presumptuously assuming ‘they’re racist’ when in fact America has engaged other countries under the pretence of ‘creating a peaceful and better world to live in’ .

Alan K. Henderson, you’re treating some of these gung-ho politicians to be more civil, you’re teaching politicians to get their views across in more civil manner, views that are more acceptable to the general public and once you’ve groomed these politicians they’re able to go out there and achieve what they fiercely believe because the general public has bought it.

Yes, politicians are ‘barking moonbats’ but why would a civility coach be teaching a ‘crazy’ politician to be civil if he had no faith in them in achieving the politicians goal to be civil……your profession and your statement does not go hand in hand….please explain.

NIGHTFLY SAID: "I majored in journalism at college so I can tell you, Jed, that when the face value of your words are in conflict with your intended meaning, the problem is what you wrote, not what we read. Or to quote the great Thomas More, "It will mean what the words say."
If you say "I hate puppies," and every dog lover in earshot gets mad, it's no use to protest, "No, that's just face value of my words, I meant that I really just prefer kittens." That's not what you said. If that's all you say, then it's all we have to go on, not being Jedi. We can't just presume that you're kidding unless we know you first - and this is the first visit you've made here."

Be under no illusion that I have not been kidding in what I wrote. I sincerely mean what I say. The method I used in getting my message across was admittedly a little ambigious and yes you are right, you do not know me however just because somebody shouts out ‘I hate puppies’ does not give right to all dog lover’s in ear shot to kick the ten bells of shit out of the cat lover is it?

If puppy lovers were beaten up every time they shouted out they love cats and one day a cat decides to voice out and says ‘please do not hurt all cats’ then how fair is it for the puppy lovers to start bitching saying ‘that’s a little out of order’ .

There is always an alternative like saying ‘you are entitled to that opinion friend, you keep your cats in your yard and Ill keep my dogs on my porch and make sure you stick to these rules’.

NIGHTFLY SAID "As to substance, I'm glad first off to see that you came back to explain. It helps overcome a bad first impression. Second, I'm glad to see that you're backing off the assertion of racism by America towards South Korea, the moreso because it doesn't exist. As Ken pointed out, we lost over 50,000 soldiers defending their country from Communist tyranny."

Racisim is a strong word my friend, look at my earlier definition of a racist. I never said ‘Amercia is racist’. I said America’s constant engagement on less equipped countries depicts a picture to the rest of the world that you are nothing short of a playground bully.
You had to use Afganistan and other neighbouring countries to crush Russia because you truly didn’t want to go up against a like for like contender and all the trouble that is happening there now is as a direct result of your governments backing all those many years ago….the boomerang effect. You talk about Communist Tyranny?? Yes Russia was extending it’s claw but if you felt so strongly about it, why didn’t you engage like you did with Vietnam and Iraq? You had to break the only power that could have gone up against you. You give military advice, training and give an endless warfare supply to countries so that they fight your fight then attack them years later…………………So who are the real tyrants in today’s modern age?

NIGHTFLY SAID "That brings me to point three - your statement that China keeps to itself and doesn't meddle in the world. China, in fact, is not nearly as silent as you'd like to believe. Take Korea again - the North was supplied and supported by China with weapons and personnel. Same thing in Vietnam. China enslaved Tibet, quashed the Tianemen Square democracy movement, cracks down on dissent, and through its economy casts a large shadow on world events. Part of that is condoning economic warfare in the form of large-scale piracy of Western media and software. (Former Soviet Russia does a good deal of this as well, and Communist satellite North Korea conducts large-scale counterfieting of American currency.)"

My man, it’s a well known fact that China have been buying the goodwill of most Western markets for a long time i.e. football clubs, baseball clubs, hotels, casinos all the novelty kinda things (cos they keep it sweet with the world), they’ve also got some major interests in some of the world banks and global groups/organizations but do you see them having a negative, bullying, violent gun culture effect, do you see China openly declaring war or alternatively rather, getting someone else to fight their battle with Amercia?? Ive spoke to Chinese aqquaintanices in the past and they ‘claim’ Vietnam and Korea were supplied because if they hadnt, it would have caused disastrous relations within the Asian Hempishere which makes sense, help thy neighbour………Who would have fallen out with Amercia if they hadn’t engaged Vietnam or Iraq?
All of the above you mentioned are interests directly related to Amercia’s economic growth, it’s an extremely selfish point of view.

Take a moment to reflect the negative results of your country’s actions as opposed to soley concentrating on ‘protecting democracy’ because you will see America’s true intention was not solely to assist a weaker country but to retain itself as the lone super power that does not want to be challenged by another ‘loco’ country.

NIGHTFLY SAID "You also mentioned the suffering of Africa, and supposed American inaction - even though our citizens send food, billions of dollars, the Peace Corps, etc. In fact, the main hallmark of American foreign policy is not naked self-interest, but the desire to help somehow, anyhow, even if it HURTS our stature around the world - because people see that even American resources are limited and thus blame our country for not making everything better forever. We respond to the devastation of a tsunami halfway around the world, and people say we weren't there soon enough; we intervene to save lives in a civil war and people blame us for innocent people who die after we arrive; we're accused of loving war even though the peace movement in America is the loudest, best-funded, and most public in human history."

The majority of developed and semi developed countries assist at the worst of times, its just not America that lends a helping hand. Your last sentence “peace movement in America is the loudest, best-funded, and most public in human history”. Yes America does play a lrage part but it has to because imagine this…..you slap somebody in the face as hard as you possibly can and then you ask them to goto your house where they will be given free food, free shelter, free education, free clothing and your family will support them in any way which way they can because your family has got the financial backing and hey guess what? We just wont support you but we support all these other causes…….they’ll soon forget about the initial slap and concentrate on all the lovely free things they can get, what kinda job they can start etc.………I don’t know enough about how it works in The US but in the UK all refugees/asylum seekers (about 1/3rd are true refuge seekers) receive this free treatment.

But the question that springs to mind is why attack those countries when the very people you are going to go after could possibly enter your country and start their illegal activities up again?

NIGHTFLY SAID "Most importantly, our laws permit all these criticisms and protect the people who make them. One huge reason China seems like such a model of international restraint is that they silence anyone who tries to say otherwise. If you went onto a Chinese blog to protest their treatment of Falun Gong, your comment would vanish unread; and if you were Chinese, so would you. The only place for a dissident to be heard is in the West - from Thomas Paine through Thoreau, to Solzhenitsyn and Cuban expatriots."

Lol, theres only 5 real communist states in the ENTIRE WORLD, so its not a mjor problem, don’t believe everything the American media tells you. I understand that in a communist state, if you do not like living there, you can move elsewhere cant you? I don’t live in a commy state and I have no wish to move to a commy state but woe be tide if any man attempts to take my right from me because I have enough faith in God and myself that I will find a way out.

I do not need to be used as a pawn in the name of good to gain more worldly power and more control…..there is little or no difference (with the exception of etiquecy and procedures) between the Amercan Government and extreme religious groups………….neither groups have a personal vested interest or political gain in helping another poor soul out have they?? (and Im being sarcastic!!)

NIGHTFLY SAID: I'd guess that our love of the underdog is the root of all of it - our need to apologize being an overdog; our insistence on equal time to everyone, even enemies of our people and government; our support of people who oppose tyranny abroad; our love even of blogging, which gives a voice to anyone who wants it. Our media today are even giving equal time to the diseased rantings of the sociopath who shot up Virginia Tech this week. That's what we do, good or bad - and we leave it up to the individual to decide how to react. And if we disapprove, we usually do it with words, not force."

Apologize for being an overdog?? I haven’t heard no apology, you aren’t even admitting that ‘you could even possibly’ be wrong. You do it “with words not force”. I do not know what the Amercian Media are feeding you over there but honestly on this side and from most sides, you do it with force……….just because Americans say we’re peaceful doesn’t mean the rest of the world share your levels of peacefulness.

I do feel that we (both sides of the Atlantic) are being manipulated by the government and the media………..its all about money and power by the owners of the governments (the dominating global business groups who own economies) and in all honesty, I came to this conculsion a long time ago. We’re just pawns in helping them getting what they want, they tell us which clothes to wear, what kind of car we should drive, what hairstyle we should have, whats cool and uncool, what type of house we should live in, the type of décor we should have….anything to take the focus away from what is happening in the real world. These same companies fund the government through sponsorships (and much more) and openly wish to take their brand/company into areas where they would never have been previously allowed simply because it’s all about the money.

I don’t know about you guys but this has really disheartened me because I really wanted to hear something that was going to change my mind, I really thought someone was going to give me an insight on how things really are…………….but your comments prove that you are a product of today’s society, there is no self reflection or a hint of ‘hold on, maybe he might have a point.’
You do not see that you openly promote killing etc. yet have the audacity to question the ‘barking moonbat’ of South Korea for criticsing you for this very violence.
You are totally defending your governments actions whereas we Brits strongly disagree with our government (white, black, asain, it don’t matter, the majority are in a consensus) that they were wrong for going to war.

Forgive me for thinking that America going to war so freely, without justification and killing innocent people has nothing to do with the senseless slaughtering that happened in Virginia…………..I bet the killer thought it was totally justifiable too.

"IF AMERICA WASN’T SO GUNG-HO IN ITS ENGAGEMENT OF OTHER COUNTRIES, THEN MAYBE THOSE POOR CHILDERN OF THOSE GRIEVING FAMILIES WOULD NEVER HAVE SEEN THEIR KIDS DIE."

"Forgive me for thinking that America going to war so freely, without justification and killing innocent people has nothing to do with the senseless slaughtering that happened in Virginia."

I can't put these together.

(BTW, I didn't suggest editing for grammar, but for sense.)

Violence begets violence.

If the powers of authority that you abide by and adhere to are openly, without any real justification engaging countries, killing people and all in the name of 'good' then it sends out a message (either sublimnally or conciously) to the young impressionable minds of that population that it is perfectly fine to infringe on another human life.

Jed, there's a good reason why we're not considering whether or not you have a point - it's because we've already considered that point, and decided against it.

For example, I think that it's at least as likely that, just as you accuse us of being spoon-fed by our media and government, that you are also spoon-fed by your sources of information. And my evidence for this is twofold:

1. "America used Afghanistan as a proxy against Russia." As you may recall, the Soviet Union INVADED Afghanistan; this was not an act that the West provoked in any way. Had we also invaded to repel the Soviets, it would have escalated the conflict unacceptably. Therefore, you can see that it was restraint and not thirst for battle that informed America's foreign policy. It may have been handled better by others, but it certainly could have been a lot worse. Then, when the Taliban wound up taking over in Afghanistan, they became an enemy of the United States. This forced us to change our own stance to them. Without 9/11, they would still be in power there - our attack was a reply, and not unprovoked.

2. "Lol, theres only 5 real communist states in the ENTIRE WORLD, so its not a major problem, don’t believe everything the American media tells you. I understand that in a communist state, if you do not like living there, you can move elsewhere cant you?"

You understand wrong. First, China alone controls a good segment of the economy and a huge population, as we've already seen. Second, they project their aggression through very indirect means. Third, if you're in a communist state, you do not move away freely. EVER. In Communism, the citizen is property of the state, and he is only free to choose insofar as his choice advances the state's aims. They decide whether or not you're allowed to go.

We can agree at least on this much - there are always people who want you to believe something for their sake and not yours. In our case, you say it's the government; but I see a lot more open and celebrated dissent. For example, a lot of the same people in this blog who support the government for large-scale stuff are quite upset whenever the government decides to intrude on our private affairs; we think that the government's job is to handle things like national defense and leave us alone in our day-to-day lives.

In your case, I daresay that people inimical to the freedom of the West have a vested interest in giving you parts of the information and casting America as a bully to further their ends. For example, fighting back against terrorists - and doing so on our terms rather than theirs. We've been using diplomacy more often than not (Saudi Arabia, North Korea, Syria, Pakistan) with varying results, but by no means is it one-sided aggression on our part; and of course we have a wide range of allies beyond Britain (Australia, many Eastern European countries).

To say that hitting back against weaker countries makes us a bully is to miss the main point - hitting BACK. If you were stronger than I am, you may be able to put up with my tossing spitballs or messing around in your locker... if I got a gang of ten other kids who were all weaker than you and we started trashing your car, killing your pets, and tossing rocks through your window, you'd have the right to start knocking in our teeth, one by one - and for us to protest that it wasn't fair, that you're bigger and stronger, really misses the point. Why should you take us on all at once if you didn't have to? Why should you willingly be stupid about defending yourself, especially when it's justified? Insisting that America has no right to self-defense because it's more powerful is, in essence, the same as saying that America must be destroyed.

I live here and I'm fond of the place, so forgive me if I disagree with that point of view.

Your reply may well be that, well, we don't have the right to destroy anyone else's home either. But that would miss a point you made before - "America does play a lrage part but it has to because imagine this…..you slap somebody in the face as hard as you possibly can and then you ask them to goto your house where they will be given free food, free shelter, free education, free clothing and your family will support them in any way which way they can..." We may be forced, in defense, to fight a war in another country, but afterward we rebuild the place. And really, we don't have to. We do it anyway. In fact, it's hard to find other examples in human history of nations that win wars, rebuild the losers' countries for them, forgive the debts, and let the other countries go back to hating the winning country (as has happened through much of Europe). The Europeans would say that it's because we're such a horrible nation and government. It's more likely that they've grown spoiled by having no part in their own self-defense - to the point where they can no longer see the danger to themselves of being conquered.

Reality is, if America had really been the bloodthirsty nation the enemy talks about, we would have colonial governors in every continent of the globe. If we were really tyrants, we wouldn't hold free elections and abide by the results in the middle of a war. If we were really racists, we'd have built that wall alongside Mexico - if we decided that it wasn't worth taking over wholesale.

The whole corporate thing is too long to discuss in the middle of this comment; for now, the really short version is - of course companies try to sell their products. Of course the adverts are a bunch of hooey. But you can always decide to buy whatever you please, based on whatever you like. If you like none of it, you can buy nothing; or start your own company more in keeping with your principles, the same way Nantucket Nectars, Ben and Jerry, and Paul Newman did.